...on a hydrgen fuel cell. I aske the company representative about range and he estimated about 140 miles. Then i asked him about the hydrogen pressure in the tank and he said when it was fully pressurized it was at 10,000 psi. When you fill the tank the pressure in the resevoir must be higher or pumped to a higher pressure. I have worked on the space shuttle main engine and the pressure is well below that. The rocket engines have very frequent inspections along the way and have to be reworked frequently to get everything right. When I think of the problems with hydrogen at 10-12,000 psi , I thinkk the people at Toyota are smoking funny stuff, Don"t you agree?
I went to the auto show in LA yesterday and saw a Toyota Concept car that runs...
- Thread starter peter n
- Start date
Plus how do we get hydrogen? Oil! Just think of the pollution we would have if everyone went to hydrogen fueled cars. Water is a great GW gas. It is like ethanol, it takes more energy to get a gallon of ethanol than the energy you get out. Where do we get the extra energy? oil! Another one is PV's, it takes more energy to get the systems working than they produce-because the life expectancy has drooped. Here is what we know: Blacktop (roads and parking lots) and buildings heat cities; Air pollution causes lung (and other) diseases, deforestation causing more destruction (duststorms, hurricanes/cyclones all increasing deforestation) and destroys the ozone layer while heating earth surface; fires cause mud slides, deforestation and pollution-more heating surface temperatures; CFC's destroy the ozone layer raising skin cancer rates and killing off endanger species and increased surface temperatures; lighting produces ozone near the surface and raises air pollution levels-more heating; the suns increased magnetic field are causing increases in earthquakes (more destruction), volcanoes (wow, great distruction), sun spots and leading to more heating. Cars, airplanes, ships and most electricity production causes pollution, warmer temperatures and destruction. But most of this is in our control outside of the sun (Volcanoes, sun spots and earthquakes are part of the sun magnetic strength): We need to fix our part! That is why I founded CoolingEarth.org an geoengineering web sight.The USA Mayor's are on the right track, we can have control and economic growth. The fed gov is way out of step-even Congress. We also need a pollution surcharge to balance the field and advance new technologies. Where we are with global warming has never happened before. CO2 has never lead to temperature change, but temperature change has led to increases in CO2. The models are having to be made with little evidence!
[T] Torrent
New Member
H2 can be dangerous, but we have come far enough that it can be safely used as a fuel source. It can be safely used, but they do have to ensure that saftey and make backups and take extra precausions. Hydrogen will definitally be the future fuel source, it just has to have its finishing touches done before the public can accept it. The concerns with Hydrogen as fuel were the exact same as those when Gasoline was introduced as a fuel. Once it is shown safe, people will accept it.
Plus how do we get hydrogen? Oil! Just think of the pollution we would have if everyone went to hydrogen fueled cars. Water is a great GW gas. It is like ethanol, it takes more energy to get a gallon of ethanol than the energy you get out. Where do we get the extra energy? oil! Another one is PV's, it takes more energy to get the systems working than they produce-because the life expectancy has drooped. Here is what we know: Blacktop (roads and parking lots) and buildings heat cities; Air pollution causes lung (and other) diseases, deforestation causing more destruction (duststorms, hurricanes/cyclones all increasing deforestation) and destroys the ozone layer while heating earth surface; fires cause mud slides, deforestation and pollution-more heating surface temperatures; CFC's destroy the ozone layer raising skin cancer rates and killing off endanger species and increased surface temperatures; lighting produces ozone near the surface and raises air pollution levels-more heating; the suns increased magnetic field are causing increases in earthquakes (more destruction), volcanoes (wow, great distruction), sun spots and leading to more heating. Cars, airplanes, ships and most electricity production causes pollution, warmer temperatures and destruction. But most of this is in our control outside of the sun (Volcanoes, sun spots and earthquakes are part of the sun magnetic strength): We need to fix our part! That is why I founded CoolingEarth.org an geoengineering web sight.The USA Mayor's are on the right track, we can have control and economic growth. The fed gov is way out of step-even Congress. We also need a pollution surcharge to balance the field and advance new technologies. Where we are with global warming has never happened before. CO2 has never lead to temperature change, but temperature change has led to increases in CO2. The models are having to be made with little evidence!
[T] Torrent
New Member
H2 can be dangerous, but we have come far enough that it can be safely used as a fuel source. It can be safely used, but they do have to ensure that saftey and make backups and take extra precausions. Hydrogen will definitally be the future fuel source, it just has to have its finishing touches done before the public can accept it. The concerns with Hydrogen as fuel were the exact same as those when Gasoline was introduced as a fuel. Once it is shown safe, people will accept it.
SilentDoGood
New Member
Why don't to check out this car that runs on only compressed air. It schedule to be available in 2008.
Sithlord78
New Member
Though some engineers can be quite cool, I doubt a serious engineer smokes the 'wacky-tabacky'.
You should've also asked what is the full fuel capacity. You need to know the Volume of the Hydrogen tanks to know everything from the fuel efficiency (Yes that matters even for a Hydro-car) to the lethality of the explosion should the car go up in flames.
PV = nRT according to ideal gas law.
so amount of hydrogen (in moles) = n = PV/(RT)
Fuel efficiency = 140 miles/(n x .001kg/mol)
(I think that's right)
I think eventually because of a lack of resources we will take hydrogen as our fuel and accept it no matter the danger.
Hydro-electrolysis seems to be a good answer for a lot of our current troubles. Fossil fuel dependence, greenhouse gases, drought, and rising ocean levels.
Think of it, you electrolyze ocean water using solar panels and capture the hydrogen. You ship the hydrogen to landlocked states such as Georgia, Nevada, Arizona, that are suffering lack of water. The hydrogen goes into cars that emit water as a by-product and that water goes into the local ecosystem. It will work as long as you can ship enough hydrogen without using it all up in the process.
You should've also asked what is the full fuel capacity. You need to know the Volume of the Hydrogen tanks to know everything from the fuel efficiency (Yes that matters even for a Hydro-car) to the lethality of the explosion should the car go up in flames.
PV = nRT according to ideal gas law.
so amount of hydrogen (in moles) = n = PV/(RT)
Fuel efficiency = 140 miles/(n x .001kg/mol)
(I think that's right)
I think eventually because of a lack of resources we will take hydrogen as our fuel and accept it no matter the danger.
Hydro-electrolysis seems to be a good answer for a lot of our current troubles. Fossil fuel dependence, greenhouse gases, drought, and rising ocean levels.
Think of it, you electrolyze ocean water using solar panels and capture the hydrogen. You ship the hydrogen to landlocked states such as Georgia, Nevada, Arizona, that are suffering lack of water. The hydrogen goes into cars that emit water as a by-product and that water goes into the local ecosystem. It will work as long as you can ship enough hydrogen without using it all up in the process.
Sithlord78
New Member
Though some engineers can be quite cool, I doubt a serious engineer smokes the 'wacky-tabacky'.
You should've also asked what is the full fuel capacity. You need to know the Volume of the Hydrogen tanks to know everything from the fuel efficiency (Yes that matters even for a Hydro-car) to the lethality of the explosion should the car go up in flames.
PV = nRT according to ideal gas law.
so amount of hydrogen (in moles) = n = PV/(RT)
Fuel efficiency = 140 miles/(n x .001kg/mol)
(I think that's right)
I think eventually because of a lack of resources we will take hydrogen as our fuel and accept it no matter the danger.
Hydro-electrolysis seems to be a good answer for a lot of our current troubles. Fossil fuel dependence, greenhouse gases, drought, and rising ocean levels.
Think of it, you electrolyze ocean water using solar panels and capture the hydrogen. You ship the hydrogen to landlocked states such as Georgia, Nevada, Arizona, that are suffering lack of water. The hydrogen goes into cars that emit water as a by-product and that water goes into the local ecosystem. It will work as long as you can ship enough hydrogen without using it all up in the process.
You should've also asked what is the full fuel capacity. You need to know the Volume of the Hydrogen tanks to know everything from the fuel efficiency (Yes that matters even for a Hydro-car) to the lethality of the explosion should the car go up in flames.
PV = nRT according to ideal gas law.
so amount of hydrogen (in moles) = n = PV/(RT)
Fuel efficiency = 140 miles/(n x .001kg/mol)
(I think that's right)
I think eventually because of a lack of resources we will take hydrogen as our fuel and accept it no matter the danger.
Hydro-electrolysis seems to be a good answer for a lot of our current troubles. Fossil fuel dependence, greenhouse gases, drought, and rising ocean levels.
Think of it, you electrolyze ocean water using solar panels and capture the hydrogen. You ship the hydrogen to landlocked states such as Georgia, Nevada, Arizona, that are suffering lack of water. The hydrogen goes into cars that emit water as a by-product and that water goes into the local ecosystem. It will work as long as you can ship enough hydrogen without using it all up in the process.
the fuel cell car runs on compressed hydrogen.
the space shuttle uses liquified hydrogen
when you liquefy a gas the pressures drop to about 1/100 of the compressed pressures
they must be hurting for people to work on the shuttle if they hire someone that would not know that.
no wonder nasa is in bad shape.
the funny part is that the hydrogen filling station for cars has liquefyed hydrogen and they convert it to compressed hydrogen to fill the car.
why not put a liguefyed hydrogen tank in the car and drive 500+ miles between fill up.
this is why i think hydrogen fuel cars are a scam for gov research money and will not work to replace gasoline.
i will bet that the real fuel cell cars will use ethanol not hydrogen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-ethanol_fuel_cell
the space shuttle uses liquified hydrogen
when you liquefy a gas the pressures drop to about 1/100 of the compressed pressures
they must be hurting for people to work on the shuttle if they hire someone that would not know that.
no wonder nasa is in bad shape.
the funny part is that the hydrogen filling station for cars has liquefyed hydrogen and they convert it to compressed hydrogen to fill the car.
why not put a liguefyed hydrogen tank in the car and drive 500+ miles between fill up.
this is why i think hydrogen fuel cars are a scam for gov research money and will not work to replace gasoline.
i will bet that the real fuel cell cars will use ethanol not hydrogen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-ethanol_fuel_cell
10,000psi is the new "standard" for compressed gas hydrogen storage tanks on vehicles, although many that are driving around now are still at 5,000psi (350bar).
Although it has been done, using a liquid H2 tank on vehicles isn't ideal either because you end up spending a lot of energy to keep the H2 in liquid form. You also spend a lot of energy getting the H2 to 10,000psi - every fuel has a down-side!
140miles sounds small, it must've been a pretty small storage tank.
Although it has been done, using a liquid H2 tank on vehicles isn't ideal either because you end up spending a lot of energy to keep the H2 in liquid form. You also spend a lot of energy getting the H2 to 10,000psi - every fuel has a down-side!
140miles sounds small, it must've been a pretty small storage tank.